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	<title>Comments on: Origins: Only as Complicated as You Want Them To Be</title>
	<atom:link href="http://speedforce.org/2009/04/origin-complexity/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://speedforce.org/2009/04/origin-complexity/</link>
	<description>Tracking the Flash - the Fastest Man Alive</description>
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		<title>By: Touch of Grey</title>
		<link>http://speedforce.org/2009/04/origin-complexity/#comment-45603</link>
		<dc:creator>Touch of Grey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jan 2012 19:02:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://speedforce.org/?p=3316#comment-45603</guid>
		<description>At this point in time, we&#039;re just going to take all of Didio&#039;s explanations and boil them down to, &quot;BECAUSE I SAID SO.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At this point in time, we&#8217;re just going to take all of Didio&#8217;s explanations and boil them down to, &#8220;BECAUSE I SAID SO.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Kelson</title>
		<link>http://speedforce.org/2009/04/origin-complexity/#comment-45595</link>
		<dc:creator>Kelson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jan 2012 16:16:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://speedforce.org/?p=3316#comment-45595</guid>
		<description>That would be the Wayback Wednesday feature.

For the last month or two, I&#039;ve been spotlighting an older post each Wednesday, sometimes linking to it from a newer article, sometimes just posting it at Facebook, Twitter and Google+.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That would be the Wayback Wednesday feature.</p>
<p>For the last month or two, I&#8217;ve been spotlighting an older post each Wednesday, sometimes linking to it from a newer article, sometimes just posting it at Facebook, Twitter and Google+.</p>
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		<title>By: Kyer</title>
		<link>http://speedforce.org/2009/04/origin-complexity/#comment-45585</link>
		<dc:creator>Kyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jan 2012 06:43:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://speedforce.org/?p=3316#comment-45585</guid>
		<description>0.0!  Time Warp!  Professor Zoom strikes beloved Speed Force Org Site! News at 5am last Wednesday!

The heck?  Comment section said 0 and now there&#039;s gobs of &#039;em and all from 2009?

-_-;;  I hates time travel.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>0.0!  Time Warp!  Professor Zoom strikes beloved Speed Force Org Site! News at 5am last Wednesday!</p>
<p>The heck?  Comment section said 0 and now there&#8217;s gobs of &#8216;em and all from 2009?</p>
<p>-_-;;  I hates time travel.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://speedforce.org/2009/04/origin-complexity/#comment-39298</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Sep 2011 05:41:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://speedforce.org/?p=3316#comment-39298</guid>
		<description>Well, you can&#039;t tell Superman&#039;s origin without the Kents, so if they&#039;re gone, I guess DC will soon stop telling Superman stories.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, you can&#8217;t tell Superman&#8217;s origin without the Kents, so if they&#8217;re gone, I guess DC will soon stop telling Superman stories.</p>
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		<title>By: Yranigami</title>
		<link>http://speedforce.org/2009/04/origin-complexity/#comment-11337</link>
		<dc:creator>Yranigami</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Apr 2010 01:03:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://speedforce.org/?p=3316#comment-11337</guid>
		<description>Maybe we should stop worrying about Barry&#039;s legacy/return VS Wally&#039;s origin/continuity...  Someone somwhere in this blog suggested a wonderful idea! THE SPEEDFORCE; a team of super-speedsters working  together, making the world safe, one pico-second at a time! I guess nobody but us Flash freaks really give a crap about this or that origin anyway! Whaddaya guys/gals think about this idea?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe we should stop worrying about Barry&#8217;s legacy/return VS Wally&#8217;s origin/continuity&#8230;  Someone somwhere in this blog suggested a wonderful idea! THE SPEEDFORCE; a team of super-speedsters working  together, making the world safe, one pico-second at a time! I guess nobody but us Flash freaks really give a crap about this or that origin anyway! Whaddaya guys/gals think about this idea?</p>
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		<title>By: Getting caught up &#171; BW Media Spotlight</title>
		<link>http://speedforce.org/2009/04/origin-complexity/#comment-1716</link>
		<dc:creator>Getting caught up &#171; BW Media Spotlight</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 23:13:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://speedforce.org/?p=3316#comment-1716</guid>
		<description>[...] Force, an all-Flash blog, posts one member&#8217;s opinion about current events with Barry and Wally. Most notable, Kelson takes a look at the origin [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Force, an all-Flash blog, posts one member&#8217;s opinion about current events with Barry and Wally. Most notable, Kelson takes a look at the origin [...]</p>
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		<title>By: West</title>
		<link>http://speedforce.org/2009/04/origin-complexity/#comment-1617</link>
		<dc:creator>West</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 16:37:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://speedforce.org/?p=3316#comment-1617</guid>
		<description>Javi you didn&#039;t say who you were talking to.  Maybe you were asking me.

I never said Barry fought all those people so maybe what you&#039;re really asking is how legacy heroes and their predecessors are interchangeable, at times.

I think that any time the legacy hero is presented in new media as the &lt;i&gt;original&lt;/i&gt; speedster, ring-slinger, etc. and especially when they fight the bad guys of the &quot;actual&quot; original, they represent that original character, to a degree.

That was the case (to varying degrees) with Wally/Flash in JLU and the very amalgamated John/GL from the same series.

The character becomes a sprinkle of the old and a dash of the new.  Often, it&#039;s a way of simplifying the comics origins and/or placating some reasonable and some rabid fans of those characters.

.-= West’s latest blog post: &lt;a href=&quot;http://west3man.blogspot.com/2009/03/hulk-fly.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Hulk Fly!&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Javi you didn&#8217;t say who you were talking to.  Maybe you were asking me.</p>
<p>I never said Barry fought all those people so maybe what you&#8217;re really asking is how legacy heroes and their predecessors are interchangeable, at times.</p>
<p>I think that any time the legacy hero is presented in new media as the <i>original</i> speedster, ring-slinger, etc. and especially when they fight the bad guys of the &#8220;actual&#8221; original, they represent that original character, to a degree.</p>
<p>That was the case (to varying degrees) with Wally/Flash in JLU and the very amalgamated John/GL from the same series.</p>
<p>The character becomes a sprinkle of the old and a dash of the new.  Often, it&#8217;s a way of simplifying the comics origins and/or placating some reasonable and some rabid fans of those characters.</p>
<p>.-= West’s latest blog post: <a href="http://west3man.blogspot.com/2009/03/hulk-fly.html" rel="nofollow">Hulk Fly!</a> =-.</p>
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		<title>By: Javi Trujillo</title>
		<link>http://speedforce.org/2009/04/origin-complexity/#comment-1615</link>
		<dc:creator>Javi Trujillo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 10:33:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://speedforce.org/?p=3316#comment-1615</guid>
		<description>In what issues did barry fight Savatar, Black Flash (until this year), Cicada, Tar Pit, Peekaboo, Razer, Argus, Handsome Jack, Lady Flash, Magenta, Girder, Plunder, etc?

How did Wally act like Barry in the Justice League and Justice League Unlimited animated series?

Did Barry charge people for his services?  Did Barry have to deal with bankruptcy?  Did Barry &quot;sleep around&quot; and act immaturely?  Could Barry lend his speed?  Did Barry spend most of his adult life with his secret identity revealed?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In what issues did barry fight Savatar, Black Flash (until this year), Cicada, Tar Pit, Peekaboo, Razer, Argus, Handsome Jack, Lady Flash, Magenta, Girder, Plunder, etc?</p>
<p>How did Wally act like Barry in the Justice League and Justice League Unlimited animated series?</p>
<p>Did Barry charge people for his services?  Did Barry have to deal with bankruptcy?  Did Barry &#8220;sleep around&#8221; and act immaturely?  Could Barry lend his speed?  Did Barry spend most of his adult life with his secret identity revealed?</p>
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		<title>By: papa zero</title>
		<link>http://speedforce.org/2009/04/origin-complexity/#comment-1614</link>
		<dc:creator>papa zero</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 05:05:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://speedforce.org/?p=3316#comment-1614</guid>
		<description>even the incredible-esque circumstance can be viable as long as it fuels the engine that drives the character.  using the family setting as the the motivating factor may not work on it&#039;s own.

I do agree with your assessment of the &quot;illusion of change&quot; in what amounts to minor details with an important exception - the way they use their powers to take on their respective challenges speaks to their individual personalities as characters.  Of course the personalities are measured by their behavior in a story...   While stories are limited to the imagination of the writer, cumulatively over time the stage is set for a sense of who that character is and how they behave - making them unique.

I liked Barry&#039;s character better - but I think Wally had a better character engine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>even the incredible-esque circumstance can be viable as long as it fuels the engine that drives the character.  using the family setting as the the motivating factor may not work on it&#8217;s own.</p>
<p>I do agree with your assessment of the &#8220;illusion of change&#8221; in what amounts to minor details with an important exception &#8211; the way they use their powers to take on their respective challenges speaks to their individual personalities as characters.  Of course the personalities are measured by their behavior in a story&#8230;   While stories are limited to the imagination of the writer, cumulatively over time the stage is set for a sense of who that character is and how they behave &#8211; making them unique.</p>
<p>I liked Barry&#8217;s character better &#8211; but I think Wally had a better character engine.</p>
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		<title>By: Seven.Ride</title>
		<link>http://speedforce.org/2009/04/origin-complexity/#comment-1605</link>
		<dc:creator>Seven.Ride</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Apr 2009 18:25:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://speedforce.org/?p=3316#comment-1605</guid>
		<description>At base, the Flash concept is still what it was in 1980 or 1960, basically all the things DC did in those old stories.  Wally&#039;s stories over the past decade plus are heavily informed by that sensibility, the history, the &quot;legacy&quot;. Wally&#039;s a very different man than Barry, of course. But what is the Flash concept today vs. then is the same.

That&#039;s why in cartoons they&#039;re interchangeable, virtually indistinguishable except to nerds like me, who can spot the differences in eye color or belts, or how snappy the banter is.

I think comic fans are often focused on those minor distinctions, because they differentiate the playing field and denote change. But they&#039;re also pretty superficial. Barry fighting Grodd ain&#039;t that different than Wally or Bart doing it. Sort of the &#039;illusion of change&#039;.  Instead of the last 20 years of having Barry around (and likely being killed off in the 90s, like all his peers were), DC instead had Wally become more and more entrenched in his trappings. Which was a good thing for Wally&#039;s popularity: The villains, the time travel, all that stuff makes the Flash work. (Which also explains the failure of the recent Incredibles-esque relaunch. Who wants THAT from the Flash?)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At base, the Flash concept is still what it was in 1980 or 1960, basically all the things DC did in those old stories.  Wally&#8217;s stories over the past decade plus are heavily informed by that sensibility, the history, the &#8220;legacy&#8221;. Wally&#8217;s a very different man than Barry, of course. But what is the Flash concept today vs. then is the same.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s why in cartoons they&#8217;re interchangeable, virtually indistinguishable except to nerds like me, who can spot the differences in eye color or belts, or how snappy the banter is.</p>
<p>I think comic fans are often focused on those minor distinctions, because they differentiate the playing field and denote change. But they&#8217;re also pretty superficial. Barry fighting Grodd ain&#8217;t that different than Wally or Bart doing it. Sort of the &#8216;illusion of change&#8217;.  Instead of the last 20 years of having Barry around (and likely being killed off in the 90s, like all his peers were), DC instead had Wally become more and more entrenched in his trappings. Which was a good thing for Wally&#8217;s popularity: The villains, the time travel, all that stuff makes the Flash work. (Which also explains the failure of the recent Incredibles-esque relaunch. Who wants THAT from the Flash?)</p>
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