Of Robins and Flashes…Endangered Species?

flash v3 issue 12SOME SPOILERS AHEAD IF YOU HAVEN’T READ SMALLVILLE SEASON ELEVEN

Lately, I’ve been trying to figure out just what is more dangerous in the DC Universe – to be a Robin or to wear a lightning bolt on your shirt?  There seem to be a lot of beloved characters falling by the wayside lately, and it bears some examination.  After all, Jason Todd, Stephanie Brown, and now Damian Wayne have all died while wearing the symbol of Robin.  It hasn’t been the safest role to take on in the DCU…although I would make an argument that running fast seems to attract even more trouble.

In the latest print issue of  Smallville Season Eleven we find the conclusion of the story arc that features Bart Allen, the Impulse of the Smallville-verse.  In this story, Clark and his good friend Bart are reunited in a globe-hopping battle against the Black Racer, the enemy of Flashes past and present.  In the end, Bart saves the day…but sacrifices himself to do so.  All we are left with are Clark’s plans to build “a big statue” to Bart, and another Flash that has left some form or other of DC continuity.

This adds to the demise of the Wally West of Earth 16 in “Young Justice”, and the deaths and disappearances of Flashes over the years.  Let’s take a partial toll here:

  • Barry Allen died saving the Earth in Crisis on Infinite Earths, remaining basically “dead” until Flash Rebirth.
  • Jay Garrick and the rest of the JSA died over and over again soon after CoIE while in a continual time loop, fighting the battle of Ragnarok.  This is where they stayed for several years until they were brought back into DC continuity.
  • Wally West has been in and out of the Speed Force, presumed dead more than once, killed in the Flashpoint series without ever having taken on the mantle of Flash, and now does not even exist in the New52.  He was killed once again on Earth 16 in Young Justice as noted above.
  • Bart Allen was pummeled to death by the Rogues while serving as the fourth Flash, being brought back to life some time later.  And, as noted above, his Smallville-verse self just took a one-way ticket (presumably) into the Speed Force.

This doesn’t even start to list other dead or missing speedsters like Johnny and Jesse Quick, Max Mercury, or Wally’s kids.  It really doesn’t seem safe to run fast these days.flash tfma 13

The toughest part of all this for me is the way the actual deaths are being handled lately.  Bart’s passing in Smallville felt forced…it wasn’t truly necessary.  Yes, he got rid of the menace…but how did that help Clark and the rest of the Smallville gang?  Believe it or not…exposure to Speed Force energy somehow cleansed Clark of the tracking radiation Luthor was using to follow Superman’s every move.  This allowed Superman to resume acting as Clark Kent without being found out by Luthor.

In other words…Bart’s sacrifice was made so that he could act as a “spot-remover” to some radiation that was creating an inconvenience for Clark.

I have supported (and continue to support) the New52 volume of The Flash, as it represents some of the finest scripting and art in the DC lineup today.  I’m not the guy that would ask “Where’s Wally?” for the thousandth time to Dan Didio at a con.  I do like most of what I see from DC – I’m a DC guy and have been for over 40 years of collecting.  I’m just sad to see the plot device of killing off speedsters used so much.  It seems that being a Robin or a Flash means you are wearing a red shirt in the metaphorical sense as well as in the literal sense…and both roles are simply too valuable to the history of the DC Universe to continue to be treated in that way.

Share

52 thoughts on “Of Robins and Flashes…Endangered Species?

  1. Devin "The Flash" Johnson

    “It seems that being a Robin or a Flash means you are wearing a red shirt in the metaphorical sense as well as in the literal sense…and both roles are simply too valuable to the history of the DC Universe to continue to be treated in that way.”

    Love that line and I think that you can assume that I agree.

    Reply
  2. Colin Crebs

    I think neutralizing Flashes and Robins is what the comic industry is built on. Flashes are too powerful, able to solve any problem by going fast. Robin deaths are an easy way to give Batman “character growth.” Sucks especially if you are a fan of Speedster Sidekicks that take the mantle of the mentor. But it’s all nice while it lasts: Mark Waid and Geoff John’s runs on Wally will always be my favorite.

    Reply
  3. TheFlash1990

    Geeze. Give it a rest already, will you? There should only be one Flash and one Robin, we don’t need 3, 10, a Corps, etc of the “same” character running around.

    Have Barry as Flash, maybe a Kid Flash (Wally or Bart,, or have Wally be Kid Flash or his own character but have Bart be Impulse (retty much Kid Flash of the future) but IN THE FUTURE), Jay as alternate reality Flash who interacts with Barry once a year, have Dick as Nightwing and Tim Drake as Robin. There. Done.

    Reply
    1. Kelson

      Just curious: would you hold to your “One Flash” policy if the only Flash was, say, Bart, or a genuinely new character (as Barry was when he was created)? Or “One Robin” if the Robin was, say, Carrie Kelly?

      Reply
      1. Flash Fact

        Actually, I kind of wish that after Infinite Crisis, rather than aging up Bart, they would have made up a new Flash, one who would have to find his/her connection to the great legacy of the Flash, maybe with Bart as K.F. acting as a guide of some sort. Might have been neat.

        Reply
        1. Lee H

          It would have been a lot more interesting if they’d kept Bart as a 15 year old when he became Flash.

          DC was using “One Year Later” as a soft reboot of sorts to ease new readers in, but they hedged their bets by using a character with an established fan base instead of a brand new one. I think one of the (many) reasons it kind of backfired was because Bart was barely recognisable as the same character.

          Reply
          1. Kelson

            I think OYL was a great example of why just using the name isn’t enough: you need to find the core of the character. I had the same problem with Barry as written by Geoff Johns from Rebirth through Flashpoint: He had the name, he had the face, he had the job, but he didn’t read as Barry Allen to me the way that Manapul/Buccellato’s New 52 Barry does.

            Reply
            1. Lee H

              I agree, mostly. Angsty Barry was fine in the context of the story Flash: Rebirth was telling, but beyond the mini-series it didn’t really work. The broken mirror and Barry being haunted by a life where his mother lived was clearly supposed to be a more subtle long term sub-plot, but it was wrecked by the constant delays of both Rebirth and the main series, and Johns spreading his story arcs thin, whilst Flashpoint itself had a set summer 2011 schedule.

              Reply
      2. TheFlash1990

        Nope, because in order for there to be Bart that means there has already been more than ONE Flash. Barry Allen is THE Flash, i.e. the original scarlet speedster, it should be him. With Barry you don’t need any of that, same with Dick Grayson. A new character like Barry Allen was when he was created, i.e. a complete reinvention, is NOT The Flash, nice strawman though. If there were some magical time paradox that magically caused Bart Allen to be The Flash in the same sense Barry Allen was back in his inception in 1956 and Carrie Kelly as Robin when Dick Grayson debuted and Barry and Grayson never existed respectively, then yes, absolutely. 1 Flash, 1 Robin – but here, in reality, neither of those characters you cited are The Flash or Robin and were always versions that spun out of the originals; their very existence is founded on the fact that they are also-rans.

        They don’t need multiple versions of the same character. Have one person per character – Barry Allen: Flash, Wally West: Kid Flash or “Nightwing” type speedster, Bart Allen: Impulse or Kid Flash, Jat Garrick: Alternate reality Flash.

        Same goes for Robin: Dick Grayson: Robin or Nightwing, if Nightwing, then Tim Drake as Robin. Have Carrie Kelly be a future Robin that we never have to see or interact with in regular continuity but only in “potential” future and/or time travel tales. It’s not that hard to figure out.

        Reply
        1. Kelson

          I understand: You don’t want “one Flash,” you want YOUR Flash, because you refuse to consider that other versions of the character could even be valid.

          There’s plenty of Barry material on this site. Surely the occasional positive article about another Flash can’t be *that* offensive to you that you have to complain when it happens. Might I suggest just skipping these articles in the future instead of getting hostile?

          Reply
          1. TheFlash1990

            That’s not what I said at all, and my Flash is that “one” Flash. If it were Wally or Bart that held that title then I’d say it should be them. But it was Barry that donned the red & gold and created it, and had the “unrepeatable” accident that made him The Flash; having that same accident happen to another character isn’t an “accident” at all, it’s a contrivance. If they completely “reinvented” The Flash with having a new costume, new powers, and no ties to any existing versions, like what you suggested up there with your strawman, that would not be The Flash at all, certainly not as we consider him. Surely you don’t find it *that* offensive having Barry Allen as the current Flash that you’re willing to accept any alternative as a substitute, even if it means the annihilation of The Flash mythos as we know it (Barry Allen, the iconic aspects, red & gold, etc) as a whole for some Mackenzie Ryan type revisioning of the character.

            Sorry if it comes off as hostile to you that I comment on an article and express my disagreement with it in a civil manner – an article that is not very “positive” at all concerning world of The Flash that suggests it’s going extinct when it’s anything but, it’s purpose attempting to draw attention to some sort of “shrinking circle” around The Flash and that DC hates it’s characters or some ridiculousness, and it’s simply not true, they are just trying to trim things up a little.

            I do want one Flash, but MY Flash IS The Flash. There can be other speedsters, even other ones that work and interact with The Flash, but only one Flash for the main DCU as a whole. The Flash is NOT Green Lantern, nor is he even Robin for that matter. I said my piece, you called me out on it, I was simply stating my opinion on the article, I wasn’t invective or rude or “hostile” as you put it – towards ANYONE.

            If there is anything even remotely “hostile” about this site it’s the latent animosity it’s authors seem to express and disperse regularly towards Barry Allen and the constant reaching for and promotion of anti-Barry, pro-Wally, “down with Barry” type articles and then the inflation of them. And yes, I know I don’t * have * to be here, I am here on my own volition (and as a fan of ALL speedsters, Barry being my favorite), but I am here for articles and news on The Flash because this site is about the only place on the web that covers just about all things Flash related, even if there are things posted I don’t particularly care for from time to time like the aforementioned and its authors have an agenda. I have been following this site for years and even before Barry Allen’s return there were never many “pro Barry” type articles posted here or campaigning for his return (unlike plenty of other forums on the internet, Flash and non Flash alike), all articles seemed only interested in making sure and maintaining Wally was “number one” regardless of who was under the cowl – but basically, if I don’t eat what’s served in this instance, then I don’t get to eat, because Speed Force is the only Flash kitchen in internet town. And that is the truth. And I have my own thoughts and opinions on things.

            So you’ll understand then how I may take some issue with and find your “if you don’t agree with the ‘group mentality’ around here then don’t you say anything at all, here’s the door” (very ironic) stance a bit unfair. It’s not like I went to a place called “The Wally blog” and said “Barry Allen’s the greatest!” (or is it? 😉 ), I expressed my opinion, civilly, on an article about speedsters on a site that’s supposed to cover all things Flash related. I do not see the harm in this, and I am sorry if you do.

            Reply
            1. Kelson

              1. There is plenty of Barry Allen material on this site. It’s actually the majority of it these days, for obvious reasons. The fact that you feel it necessary to pop up on the occasional “Hey, other Flashes are cool too” article to say “Geeze. Give it a rest already, will you?” and insist that those other Flashes aren’t really the Flash is, if not hostile, at least obnoxious.

              2. Speed Force now has five regular contributors, and we each like different aspects of the Flash mythos. Not all of us prefer or even like Wally. I brought Ed on board specifically because he’s enthusiastic about Barry and the current series (and has time to write reviews on a regular basis, which I don’t these days).

              Reply
              1. TheFlash1990

                “The majority of it”, out of default, as you pointed out, despite your best efforts to post, inflate, and promote all of these articles from people who are unhappy Barry Allen is the current Flash, unhappy with the direction DC has taken; articles suggesting there’s some kind of “conspiracy” to get rid of EVERY speedster that ISN’T Barry Allen, etc, these are things I see posted on a pretty regular basis, which is why I feel inclined to speak up and comment and say things like “give it a rest already”, because that is the bulk of what I see here at the site about every week. It gets old. Saying “hey other Flashes are cool too” is hardly the same as the wave of posts week after week this site posts which basically say the same thing: “Wally should be Flash, here is why – oh, hey, they got ‘rid’ of Wally, your favorite speedster could be next! Just look at all these things happening in non continuity books and shows that are their own thing! Oh noes!”, or there are little remarks or comments at the end of otherwise positive articles taking digs at DC tinged with what I call “Wallyism”. I don’t DISLIKE Wally West by any means, but his “fanbase” irritates me and that in turn comes out as criticism of the character. You could say I even find it “obnoxious”. I am sure you can relate.

                But I digress, and thank and applaud you for hiring people who can “stomach” the news and current Flash related items and presumably like Barry Allen a little more than you do to post quality pieces and write about it when others do not. I do appreciate the effort made to make the site more “fair” and “unbiased”.

                I really do like and enjoy this site and all of the coverage it gives on Flash related things. I would like to sign off on that. 🙂

                Reply
                1. Kelson

                  Wave after wave? The bulk of what you see here? Really? I think maybe you’ve been reading the Earth-17 version of this site.

                2. TheFlash1990

                  LMFAO!! But no dude, there’s at least an article or assembly of posts a week like the ones I mentioned.

          2. Ed Garrett Post author

            Just so you know – I’m a long time “Barry guy”, having collected comics for over 40 years (my twitter handle is based off of Barry’s name). But, I am also a “Wally guy”, and have been since the time years ago I paid 12 cents for the first appearance of Kid Flash as an official member of the Teen Titans. I am also a “Jay guy”, since the times when I was a kid and bought the yearly crossovers between the JLA and JSA. And, I’m even a “Bart guy”, having more recently enjoyed the adventures of Impulse and later his time as the Flash (and now once again Kid Flash). In fact, I’m a fan of all the speedsters of the DCU, including Johnny Quick, Jesse Quick, Max Mercury…in other words, I see no need to be a fan of only one Flash.

            I meant to have two points to this article. One was that it seemed there was no good literary reason to keep killing off these characters…in particular the recent death of Bart in Smallville didn’t seem to make sense, which is what triggered my writing this piece.

            Second…and most important…if there can be so many Bat-characters around (Batman, Nightwing, Red Robin, Batgirl, Batwoman, Batwing, etc.), and if there can be literally thousands of Green Lanterns in the DCU, why can there only be one Flash? Surely there can be found some room for these wonderful characters.

            I’m not “anti” anyone…I’m pro-speedster. To coin (or rather, steal) a phrase…long live Those Who Ride The Lightning!

            Reply
            1. TheFlash1990

              First, thank you for taking the time to respond, and second, while I can’t attest to being a fan of the characters as far back as when the book cost 12 cents, I have been a fan of The Flash since I watched the JL animated show and picked up a copy of 1989’s Secret Origins Annual Collection with the Brian Bolland cover back when I was an 11 or 12 year old kid , so while not as long as you, I’ve been a Flash fan for as long as I could be, so you are in good company. Anyway, here is the point I was trying to make with my posts:

              Sans the multiple, simultaneous existing Robins, there are multiple Bat CHARACTERS; but only ONE Batman. There’s no one else running around calling themselves “Batman” or “Batman 2.0”, they all have very distinct positions that differentiate themselves from Bruce; Batman, Nightwing, Robin, Batgirl, Batwoman, Oracle, etc. Same for Green Lantern – there has ALWAYS been more than ONE Green Lantern, that’s been a staple of the character since the beginning, and while having 4 “human” GLs might be a bit of a stretch (and is in my opinion anyway) since there’s only supposed to be one per sector and then a backup (I hate when comics violate/undermine their own BS), they at least assign roles to them like “honor gaurd”, etc, no one is supposed to be Hal Jordan 2.0 *arguably*, so it at least makes sense.

              Now The Flash on the other hand, first of all, the prefix of the word “The” before “Flash” not only implies singularity, but so does his title/tagline: “The Fastest MAN Alive”; The Flash was ALWAYS supposed to be ONE guy. And that is the way it should be because that makes sense, and it of course makes sense for BARRY ALLEN to BE that guy. The same rules that apply to GL in this case do not apply to Flash because they are not setup in that regard, i.e. the same way. Now, does that mean I am opposed to any other speedsters working with The Flash in the DCU, or even being “related” to him in some capacity? A speedster or “Flash” family if you want to call it that? No. Absolutely not. Just assign them all their own positions and differentiate them from one another, clearly define who they are. As goofy as I find the “Kid Flash” concept, I am at least okay with it because it distinguishes him from The Flash; you have Flash, then you have Kid Flash: NOT “Flash” and “Flash” or “Flash 2.0″, Jay also works but only if he is from Earth 2 or some other timeline and crosses over to help Barry, etc, for an adventure, so there remains exclusivity to each and every one of them, the combined/”shared” earth concept doesn’t make sense, and makes even less sense for Green Lantern. Bart also works as Impulse because he is from the future and it makes sense to assume that Barry Allen had children and some of them inherited his speed through the bloodline. And then Johnny Quick, Max Mercury, Jesse Quick, etc, even though they are speedsters, they are not copies of The Flash and all have their own places/positions; no one is trying to be THE Flash, and I would love it and be fine with them all being back and coexisting with each other – but there is only ONE Flash.

              So, just to recap:

              The Flash: Barry Allen
              “Nightwing type ‘Flash'” or Kid Flash: Wally West
              Impulse or Kid Flash: Bart Allen (but keep him in the future or have the ultimate goal be to get him sent back, there shouldn’t be a sense of permanence in in his existence in our present)
              “Earth 2” or Alternate Timeline/reality Flash: Jay Garrick
              Johnny Quick
              Max Mercury
              Jesse Quick
              …and even Irey West can be “Impulse” or “Flashette” or something if Bart is “Kid Flash”.

              The point is I don’t see the problem as long as there are clearly defined roles for each and everyone of them that don’t overlap each other or bleed together and they all coexist and there is only one of each character; ONE Flash. Because it seems to me that most the people who want Wally back only want and will only accept him as “THE Flash”, and want Barry Allen booted out of his natural place, and I dislike that. They should see that historically and in fairness it should be BARRY ALLEN who holds that title and Wally West should get his own identity, I do not see the problem with that, they could probably even find a way to incorporate Flash into his name if they wanted, but people like Mark Waid seem set on him being Flash and ONLY Flash, which would put Barry where, exactly? 3 feet under? In limbo? Some “sub division”? A “sub division” of the identity and costume HE created? When naturally it should be the other way around as Wally was ALWAYS the “sub” character and intended to be such since his inception, to have it any other way goes against everything about the character and his history. And keeping Barry dead? THAT was alienation of a fanbase, just because DC got tired of writing him or whatever, to go and kill him off and force “Wally only” down our throats when you have all these people that liked and want Barry Allen in the title is selfish and unfair. I don’t think until recently most “Wally only” fans could truly empathize/grasp how crappy that was, so in truth, I feel bad for those who would only buy for Wally West; even though the whole time Wally was Flash I was still a good sport and bought and supported all of his stories even though Barry Allen was my favorite and I wished to read him in the title as the main character, or wished they would take turns at least.

              But I digress, I hope and wish that we will see ALL of the speedsters and that they’ll stick around in comics soon, each with THEIR OWN respective places contributing to The Flash/speedster universe as a whole.

              I don’t see any reason why they all can’t have their rightful places and coexist and why we can’t all read our favorite speedsters together and(/or) separate in their respective positions without one overlapping or threatening the other.

              Long live The Flash!
              Long live speedsters!
              And long live BARRY ALLEN! 😀

              Reply
              1. Kyer

                Well, if they were really going to do the relaunch correctly then by all rights The Flash should have been Jay Garrick. Barry Allen should have been The Flash of Earth 2 since he came later. (Remember…relaunch “brand spanking new/old laws need not apply.) Heck, given the ‘relaunch’ John Fox could have been The Flash of the ‘main’ Earth. It’s all a matter of bias either way. We’re humans and humans hold bias no matter how much they try to justify the reasons why. So….six of one, half a dozen of the other. Anybody could have been The Flash in the new universe. Even Iris West. (I recall a novel about that.)

                Reply
      3. Lee H

        I think the Justice League cartoon did a very good job with Wally West as the only Flash and John Stewart as the only Earth-based Green Lantern. They wouldn’t necessarily have been my choices, but they had very strong reasons for doing so, and stuck to their guns – no muddying the waters with Guy Gardner or Barry Allen.

        Reply
        1. TheFlash1990

          Yeah, the JL/JLU Flash used Barry Allen’s story, Wally West’s name and likeness, and Bart’s personality, that was why he worked so well as the “only” Flash and was so self contained. John had some of Hal’s enemies but he was pretty much a combination of all the versions of John Stewart in the comics (angry black man stereotype in the 70s, the GL fan and architect of the 80s, and the marine sniper version in the 90s).

          Reply
          1. Lee H

            I don’t see any of Bart in the cartoon’s Flash. His personality was clearly based on the comics’ adult version of Wally before he settled down with Linda.

            Reply
            1. TheFlash1990

              When they originally pitched Justice League to WB, they intended on using Impulse as the League’s speedster, there is even a reel of it. Impulse was chosen along with other younger DC characters including Robin and a female Cyborg if I remember correctly to round out the lineup because Kids WB prefers young protagonists for their shows. When Cartoon Network picked up Justice League, the creators got rid of the other child characters but kept their basic ideas and template they were using for Impulse but used it for Flash instead. Wally in the comics was a lot brighter and even more angsty than anything the JL/JLU Flash ever was.

              Reply
        2. Kelson

          Lee, you’ve got me thinking about what the core of each character is. JLU Wally throws an interesting wrench into the issue because while he’s still recognizably Wally, he doesn’t have the history that’s so important to his comics-based fans.

          I think it’s that Wally is “living the dream” – being a super-hero, and being a speedster, is everything he’s always wanted, and he loves every minute of it (when he’s not being pummeled or watching people get hurt). This as compared to Bart, for whom being fast is just part of what he is, or Barry, who has that methodical scientific approach, or Jay, who by the Silver Age and later had settled into the elder statesman role.

          Reply
          1. Lee H

            I agree that some depth of Wally West’s character is lost without the literalised super-hero fan wish fulfilment element. For the purposes of a plot-driven cartoon with a cast of 7 (and later, even more) super-heroes and 22 minutes per episode though, it made a lot of sense to keep the origins and back-stories as streamlined as possible. We didn’t even learn Flash’s alter ego or see him unmasked until the very end of season 2!

            Reply
            1. TheFlash1990

              We see his origin in a flashback in season one episode “The Brave and the Bold”. According to the producers, Barry Allen and Hal Jordan do not exist in that universe, so Wally West is the only Flash – he pretty much has Barry’s story, status, and elements for the show. He’s clearly a police scientist and has a secret identity, also an original founding member, etc. I liked the portrayal a lot when it was on, and if that is how it were in the comics then I would say Wally should be the only Flash, but it isn’t. They did the same thing to Kyle Rayner on Superman: The Animated series, they called him Kyle Rayner and used a personality similar to Rayner’s and kept his job as an artist but used Hal Jordan’s origin and story and even appearance somewhat. They like mixing the characters it seems.

              Reply
              1. Kyer

                One episode in the last season had Wally as a forensic scientist…or at least an intern? There was his boss who strangely enough had short-cropped blond hair and looked quite a bit like a DC forensic scientist we all know of. 😛
                Wally in JL seemed more a mix of child Wally’s enthusiasm and turned-20 Baron’s immature womanizer.

                Reply
                1. TheFlash1990

                  Yep! That was a great episode, and I liked that little nod to Barry, although we know he was not him since the shows creators said he doesn’t exist in that universe. 🙁 I still thought it – well, that whole episode – was cool though. 😀 One of my favorites.

                  And I agree, I see some JLI Wally in there as well sometimes.

                2. TheFlash1990

                  * In addition to the “Impluse” stuff as well as those other elements you mentioned I meant to say. 🙂

  4. Kyer

    Oh ugh.
    To add to this Death Comics article, who wants to take bets that Injustice Flash is not going to eat it before the end of that comic?
    Not to give any spoilers, so you can go to Scans-Daily and see the Flash centric scans someone put up there today. I seriously don’t think that Barry is going to last long going by what is showcased over there.
    Also, you forgot to mention that they wanted to off Dick Grayson’s Nightwing, but he got saved by the skin of his birdarang (due to potential fan outrage that would have surpassed Wally’s …being part of the humongous Bat franchise.
    Then there’s Walter West who was as good as killed, Irey also MIA, and poor Jai who got the speedforce ripped right out of him via his loving sister.
    Truly, DC is a red shirt universe. And anti bird.
    Someone should call PETA on the last.

    Reply
    1. Ana

      The Injustice comic is a prequel to the game. Flash is playable in the game, so he’ll likely survive, if only as a shadow of himself.

      He might die in the game itself. Or he might die in the comic and get cloned or something. You never know.

      Reply
  5. Lee H

    I think it’s the mindset of characters just being “a” Robin or “a” Flash that makes them, somewhat understandably, seem disposable. As the article says, being Robin or Flash is an important “role” in the DC universe, but I think that’s part of the problem. Robin shouldn’t be a role, it should be a character.

    Reply
    1. TheFlash1990

      That’s exactly what I am saying! Making it so there’s more than one or anyone can be one takes away from the ptency and exclusivity of THAT character – which is why we only need ONE of each, and that is how it should be.

      Reply
  6. Lia

    Flashes and Robins seem to be getting the worst of it, but all of DC is pretty depressing these days. Death sells, and so does fan outrage (why do you think they enjoy winding up Wally fans so much?). That’s why I stopped buying all my DC titles, even the one I still enjoyed (Demon Knights) — I’m tired of rewarding this behaviour.

    Reply
    1. Kyer

      I really don’t get how winding up fans is profitable. I’m still buying, but it’s mostly certain toys and one book which is quite a fall from the sheer quantity of those plus other things I was getting before Didio went all “Wally Who?” They’ve actually steered me into things Marvel that I’d never have even looked for; hey, wind me up and watch my gears take me to other horizons.
      To be fair, Marvel has been (I’ve heard) dealing out quite a bit of death too. Really getting tired of all these apocalyptic hero battles like Injustice and the upcoming Trinity War. I’m thinking rather than moving “forward” into such non-heroic plot lines my sensibilities might be better served going into “reverse” and buying Silver Age and Bronze Age stories. Hear there’s quite a bit of continuity and derring-do to be found there. 🙂

      Reply
      1. Lia

        It seems counter-intuitive, but most angry fans don’t seem to have stopped buying. DC appears to be acting under the principle that any publicity is good publicity, and since it hasn’t hurt them (yet), it’s profitable.

        I understand where that mentality comes from, since at least it gets people talking about the company/products and keeps things stirred up. But until they’re punished financially for it, they have no reason to stop. So of course they keep doing it.

        Reply
        1. Kelson

          It reminds me of the way they dealt with late comics until Flashpoint. As Dan Didio said, ““As long as you keep buying late books, we’ll keep making ’em.” It’s not a joke anymore: you stopped buying ’em. We need to get our schedule under control.”

          I can’t bring myself to drop “Demon Knights” or “Flash” yet, but I keep looking at sales figures for DK and wondering how soon that choice will be taken out of my hands anyway.

          Reply
        2. Kyer

          Oh, I’ll definitely be stopping within the year probably. I’m getting an Aquaman statue because I’ve always wanted one (loved him, Flash, and Supes since young), but none of the ones out years ago appealed enough. Same for Nightwing although I cancelled that one..too small and newer, well, they’ll probably be red and black. Question, but I just saw that Vic Sage is now a villain so…lost any desire to pursue that character even in the past. So after that Aquaman is on my shelf that’s it for anything that doesn’t have Wally in it. I still want a trade of those pre-Waid years!

          Reply
    2. Scott Timms

      Sorry Lia for the crass about golden glider during the march madness.. should of made it more of an opinion than a harsh forced fact. Dont give up on the favorites atleast pick up a book every now and then. VIVA FLASH (and all his villians!)

      Reply
      1. Lia

        Thank you, I appreciate the apology 🙂

        I still very much love the pre-reboot DCU and its characters, but really can’t stand what’s being done in the New 52 (for one thing, they erased my favourite character and thoroughly replaced him so he can’t return. And one of the Flash writers declared that his replacement is better and unhappy fans like me are too foolish to see that). If DC does decide to revert its universe I’ll come back, but I just don’t want to reward what’s being done at the moment. Like I was saying earlier, if I do that there’ll be no reason for DC to change its behaviour — they’d have my money and no need to change.

        Reply
          1. Lia

            They didn’t specifically use the term. However, in a podcast interview Manapul said “It’s a balancing act. Some characters we change, some stay the same. Some fans can’t see the forest for the trees. They don’t see how this will strengthen the longevity of the character. For example, The Top. How many kids these days know what a top is? I don’t even think it exists…something like a turbine won’t go away.”

            In other words, unhappy Top fans are too foolish to see how Turbine is better. That isn’t exactly comforting to people like me. (Incidentally, if the name was the problem, why not change it? They changed Golden Glider’s name.)

            Reply
            1. Lee H

              I don’t think Manapul intended that sentiment at all. He and Brian have consistently been very kind, humble and gracious with the fan community.

              I complete agree with him about Turbine being a stronger name from a 21st century point of view. Giving him a background as a pilot ties into the symbology of the new name. And considering that Top’s power set was somewhat speed based, tying Turbine’s origin to the Speed Force was the next logical extrapolation.

              Beyond that, I think Brian and Francis felt more creative freedom to revamp Top as a new character because he simply hadn’t been used or fleshed out as much as the other prominent Flash foes.

              Reply
  7. Alice A

    When you mentioned the art in the New52 Flash, I totally agree! I love Manapul’s art (is Manapul still doing it? I’m only on #5 Flash currently) and feel very lucky to have such fantastic art done for my favourite hero! The art makes me enjoy it even more. 🙂

    Reply
    1. Lee H

      Manapul is still the lead artist for The Flash, but #10-11, #18-19, the first half of #15 and the Annuals feature guest artists.

      Reply
  8. Savitar

    Don’t forget the alleged rumor that they wanted to kill John Stewart as well.

    Robins and Flashes seem to catch the brunt of DC deaths but really, it’s a sad fact of the industry today. A character’s death should add a huge emotional impact to a story yet the Big Two have managed to subvert it into a mere selling ploy.

    I hardly pay attention to it anymore. The Comic Revolving Door of Death ensures that the majority of these deaths will be overturned or negated at some point. (Wally may not count since he would have to exist first in order to die)

    Reply
  9. lightspeed

    I am all for multiple flashes and robins. They are all unique characters in their own right and should not be left in limbo or underused. I really miss Wally West, Jesse Quick, Johnny Quick, Max Mercury I even miss John Fox. Speedsters are suffering more from the dcnu than Robins. All of them besides Cassandra Cain and Stephanie Brown are still present in their own or someone’s comic book.

    Maybe if they showcased their differences they would stand out and wouldn’t be seen as just another Flash or Robin.

    Reply

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published.

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.